L4D2 going to be a rip-off? Depends on the pricing model...

Half-Life 2 was a full game built from absolute scratch (Valve built the source engine themselves) and we paid full price for it and it was great.



All the following Valve releases where never full games - they were either mods or mods that included engine enhancements. Think:

Counter-Strike: Source

Day of Defeat: Source

Half-Life 2: Episode 1

Half-Life 2: Episode 2

Team Fortress 2

Portal



Due to the fact that they were not full games in this respect, they didn't cost full price (aka $50) and therefore used a different pricing model, and all of those titles were less than $30 and some were even configured in value packs.



Then L4D came along and defeated their pricing model, yet all it is is a fancy mod, yet we paid full price for it.



Now L4D2 is coming along... now what?



I don't know how it earned the ''2'' when really it's an expansion - it uses the same engine, same everything - in fact, it's actually the same game re-skinned.



I think it's all going to come down to how much they're going to charge for it.



IMO once the L4D SDK gets developed by modders, think of how much more fun that would be then paying for L4D2.



If it costs more than $20 I can't say it's worth buying - I'd rather spend it on Natural Selection 2.



Your thoughts?L4D2 going to be a rip-off? Depends on the pricing model...
I bet they will charge $50 again, and I bet they will get away with it too. It seems the reason for this sequel is because they saw how well L4D1 sold at retail, and decided to go for it again. I still think it's a stupid idea. Does anyone know if it will be possible to put many of the L4D2 ideas (melee weapons) into L4D1 with the SDK? That would be halarious and a big slap to the face for Valve to see their all their ''additions that were too much to add to L4D1'' be put in.L4D2 going to be a rip-off? Depends on the pricing model...
The confirmed it was full price in an interview with Shacknews.
From the in-game videos I saw the gameplay looked a lot like L4D with some tweaks (new special infected, melee weapons) it was much the same. The 'new' weapons were exactly the same as the old ones but with a new model, the new campaigns seem cool. So in my eyes L4D2 doesn't deserve the 2 and is more an expansion than a full game. Alas, the game is %26euro;50, I'm not buying it for that price, but luckily I still have a lot of fun with DOD:S, TF2 and of course L4D. So I can wait until a price drop.

I'm actually more dissapointed with Valve not showing Episode 3 (2007 -> 2009: still nothing) than Valve making a new L4D.
Team Fortress 2 and Portal are not mods. Both games were developed from scratch with entirely new textures and models, and none of them require Half-Life 2 to be played. A video game that was developed with a game engine that had previous usage is not a mod.
People complaining about L4D2 might want to re-evaluate HL2 Episodes One and Two, which they probably love (since most people do). They're collectively shorter than HL2, collectively more (or as) expensive than (as) HL2 and they add almost nothing new. Just new levels.



Why was there no outcry about the Episodes? Because people like them? Because they're good games? L4D2 will be a good game too. People will like it.
[QUOTE=''parasitesingle'']People complaining about L4D2 might want to re-evaluate HL2 Episodes One and Two, which they probably love (since most people do). They're collectively shorter than HL2, collectively more (or as) expensive than (as) HL2 and they add almost nothing new. Just new levels.



Why was there no outcry about the Episodes? Because people like them? Because they're good games? L4D2 will be a good game too. People will like it.[/QUOTE]



I don't want to divert this discussion, but a game could be summed up entirely as 'just [a composition of] new levels.' Aside from that, the Half-LIfe Episodes are expansion packs, not full-fledged games.



My intention is not to criticize Left 4 Dead 2 already, but I don't see how your response relates to the received criticism.
[QUOTE=''parasitesingle'']People complaining about L4D2 might want to re-evaluate HL2 Episodes One and Two, which they probably love (since most people do). They're collectively shorter than HL2, collectively more (or as) expensive than (as) HL2 and they add almost nothing new. Just new levels. Why was there no outcry about the Episodes? Because people like them? Because they're good games? L4D2 will be a good game too. People will like it.[/QUOTE]Half Life=Single Player Narrative driven game.Left 4 Dead= Multiplayer online driven game.People want to know more of what happens in a story.The episodes take some honest to god work (Episode 3 is going to Rock; yet I don't see any info on it at all)Episodes were not full priced games.
I read an interesting interview that was with one of the project leads for Left 4 Dead 2. After going through it, it does sound like they consider it to be a full sequel. I also think it is definitely more an expansion than it is a sequel. You don't come up with a sequel one year after the original game was released, especially not if you're Valve. From what I've seen so far, I'm not willing to pay full price for L4D2- it just doesn't seem like it's worth the money. After playing the first game so much, I want to see at least a few more dramatic changes in gameplay before I reconsider. If I'm going to pay full price I expect a lot more content this time around (before and after release). I definitely don't want them releasing L4D3 in November 2010. Having said that, November is a long way away and a lot could change in that time, so I will keep an eye on it and make my final decision when it comes out.
Me and my friends are all going to wait for a 50% off weekend if they charge full price...
If you don't want it, don't buy it, don't complain about it.
They should have 10% off the game BUT you can't use a mouse or keyboard 8)
[QUOTE=''parasitesingle'']People complaining about L4D2 might want to re-evaluate HL2 Episodes One and Two, which they probably love (since most people do). They're collectively shorter than HL2, collectively more (or as) expensive than (as) HL2 and they add almost nothing new. Just new levels. Why was there no outcry about the Episodes? Because people like them? Because they're good games? L4D2 will be a good game too. People will like it.[/QUOTE]Because when Episode 1 came out is was 20 bucks. not 50The Orange box made sense to be full price at the time because it was an all in one bundle with TF2. and EVERYONE wanted TF2 which they easily could have sold on its own at full price so it was a justified cost.
Yes L4D2 is a rip-off. If you havent gotten L4D1, dont get the second, because its a waste of your time and money. Only upgraded things are New characters, maybe a new enemy character system, and Melee weapons. So its basically just an expansion.
What bugs me the most is that Valve did nothing but assure us that they would be hard at work on new Scenario's and added content that would keep this game alive for years.Then 6 months later at E3 we get a freaking trailer for part 2 which is the exact same engine with new character models and weapons and its coming out exactly 1 year after the First.The Success of Left4Dead on PC and 360 have valve get Greedy to make another 60 bucks and millions of units sold a year later. This move to be totally honost has made me loose a TON of respect for Valve. This is a game company that takes pride in taking its time with games making sure they create them properly and then they do this. All it is, is a Patch.Left4Dead has gotten so boring online because everyone is so sick of playing the same damn scenario over and over again 398192 times. They Promised us lots of add on content and instead decide to Farm our Pockets. Honostly I have no intention of buying L4D2.What they should have done is created an add on Pack and charged 15-20 bucks for this.
[QUOTE=''Zemus'']What bugs me the most is that Valve did nothing but assure us that they would be hard at work on new Scenario's and added content that would keep this game alive for years.Then 6 months later at E3 we get a freaking trailer for part 2 which is the exact same engine with new character models and weapons and its coming out exactly 1 year after the First.The Success of Left4Dead on PC and 360 have valve get Greedy to make another 60 bucks and millions of units sold a year later. This move to be totally honost has made me loose a TON of respect for Valve. This is a game company that takes pride in taking its time with games making sure they create them properly and then they do this. All it is, is a Patch.Left4Dead has gotten so boring online because everyone is so sick of playing the same damn scenario over and over again 398192 times. They Promised us lots of add on content and instead decide to Farm our Pockets. Honostly I have no intention of buying L4D2.What they should have done is created an add on Pack and charged 15-20 bucks for this.[/QUOTE]

Exactly!Why did they have to make new L4D2?They could have just made that as DLC for L4D1.
L4D2 is a mistake IMO, the devlopment team acts like they never worked at valve or on a valve game, valve's tradition for online games are usually made to be long lasting, when ever Valve releases a online game it HAS to last 5 years+, this has happend with almost every major valve online game, TFC, Counterstrike 1.6.and Source and TF2 will fallow the same suit, sometimes lasting 10 years like TFC.I cant believe the stupid devlopers at Valve didn't realize this, you CANNOT do this, its aganist everything valve has done in the past, i mean this is a joke, a sequel to a MULTIPLAYER game in less than a year?, that sounds like an awesome idea /sarcasm. and dont even try with ''Its brand new content!!!'', for 50 dollars its a rip off, this could have been released as DLC, just call it ''The New Orleans Incident'' and release it as L4D DLC, perfect, more content that people want, and a fresher setting..I cant believe this crap.
[QUOTE=''SkyWard20'']Team Fortress 2 and Portal are not mods. Both games were developed from scratch with entirely new textures and models, and none of them require Half-Life 2 to be played. A video game that was developed with a game engine that had previous usage is not a mod.[/QUOTE]

Do your homework - they both use the Source engine - they are re-skinned and reprogrammed- by definition that is a mod. Just because they Package the full version of the source engine with the sale to make it standalone doesn't make it a full game - it's a means of selling individual games without forcing buyers to buy all previous.
Anyways I wanted to say that I started this thread with very low expectations and I'm impressed by all the thoughtful discussion you guys have contributed. The last several posts were developed thoughts and you can see they understand the company and the industry well.



Personally I won't be buying L4D2 with all things considered. I also believe they made a mistake. I know where I'll be spending that extra money - http://www.naturalselection2.com/buy
Y'all should be kissing Valve's arse if they don't charge you $1,000,000 for this game just to punish you for your complaining. Left 4 Dead was easily worth $50 and it's sequel will be even more so with more than twice the content: new AI, new director, tons of new maps, new weapons, new character models.



If you didn't get more than your money's worth out of the first one you were playing it wrongly. I myself have nearly 200 hours on the first and that is almost exclusively in one of four game modes, Vs. The problem never lied with the game but with today's youth's short attention span thanks to the Ritalin generation.